Leadership Voyage
Leadership Voyage
S1E8: Core Values with Powerhouse Woman-in-Tech Erika Chestnut
Text Jason @ Leadership Voyage
Erika Chestnut
https://www.erikachestnut.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikachestnut/
A Powerhouse Woman-in-Tech, Erika talks about:
- The importance of an organization's core values
- Accountability
- Discovering your core values
- Tough conversations
- Social media
BIO
Fun. Quirky. Clever. Sassy. Erika’s leadership style begins and ends with relationships. With over 20 years of experience in the tech industry - from application development to spinning up new quality departments - Erika has learned to lead with grace, patience and a little bit of snarky humor. She started her career as an application developer, gaining a deep understanding of business processes, SDLC and the role quality plays in achieving business goals. She is an empathetic servant leader whose mission is to help people lead from a more compassionate space to build teams that are engaged, empowered and excited.
Leadership Voyage
site: leadership.voyage
email: StartYourVoyage@gmail.com
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@LeadershipVoyage
linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonallenwick/, https://www.linkedin.com/company/leadership-voyage-podcast/
music: by Napoleon (napbak)
https://www.fiverr.com/napbak
voice: by Ayanna Gallant
www.ayannagallantVO.com
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okay say hi everybody i am here with erica chestnut who i have waited a long time to speak with uh hey erica how are you this afternoon i'm well jason how are you i'm doing doing very well thanks we're going to talk about core values and amongst some other topics i think probably but core values is the area we wanted to focus on today and jumping right into this uh erica i reached out to a um a colleague of yours that you used to work with directly miriam a principal engineer at calendly and she gave me a little quote about you about core values and it says that erica lives her values in the one-on-ones she has where she not only asks you how you really are but she reads how you really are i've never been great at expressing my feelings and with erica a lot of the time i didn't need to because she could see it on my face even when i tried to hide it she never forced me to say anything but she has a gift of knowing how to ask a question so you feel safe to answer she lives her values by helping others to do the work themselves don't get me wrong if you need her she's there but she lets you solve it she gives you the space to take a problem figure out why and how it needs to be solved and then action on it i can't tell you how many little brainstorming sessions we had where she was able to push me to find the answer or how many times i struggled to solve something and she was a sounding board for me i saw erica liver values every day we worked together even when it was hard even when she was overwhelmed gosh what do you think what what are you feeling hearing something like that written about yourself i i tear up a little bit miriam is is and miriam is impressive and i i saw that from the very first day that we met and from the moment that we started working together she was impressive um she was oversourced and uh frustrated because she wasn't she wasn't feeding her passions it's one of the things that i talk about when it comes to teams and i'm very passionate about like i want to make sure that you're feeding your passions in your work that you're doing things that light you up and she wasn't and it was frustrating she loved the company but she she didn't feel valued because she wasn't walking her passions and we worked really hard together to craft the right role and she had to grow in some areas and the company had to like see her differently and all of those things come together so for for her to share that is like i tear up just hearing you know the sentiment and how she felt and how she saw me um because it is how i wanted to show up for her and and everybody around me and especially the women that i coach um yeah so well that's great i gotta call miriam when we're done there you go i mean thanks for the honest reaction in the moment and i i uh i mean i think we've got someone in miriam here who who highlights uh you know how you bringing the when you find a spot where you're feeding your passion it sounds like to me that you can have this effect on someone else so i wanted to launch with that while also quickly saying you know i first saw you speak uh during a keynote one of the many virtual conferences during the early covet times i can't remember exactly which conference it was but it was in 2020 and and i remember a specific anecdote in there in which you were talking about a company launching uh an update to their site or something for a sales promotion and a big deal and when you click the link in production with real users real customers there was the cat video playing so hard to forget however your your passion your energy your personality really came through in that keynote and i wanted to talk to you ever since then i am curious what uh what attracted you to speaking or public speaking keynotes how did that get started um i didn't choose the game the game chose me you know funny enough that was my first keynote that was at star west no way okay so and and i think i shared during the keynote that that was that star west was the very first quality conference a qa conference that a testing conference that i went to and then it was the first keynote that i had ever done and it was you know another another leader who saw something of me stacy kirk who is well-known in the testing community she's got uh you know her um her amazing company that's doing such great work quality works um and somebody asked her if there was somebody that was available and she said my name and it was it was like okay and then i was in this place of saying yes to things and i think it was also just a little less scary because virtual and yeah yeah so i had done some speaking and um prior to that and it wasn't it was something that i kept saying it's not me it's not being at like i like to be behind the curtains i'm like oz you know everybody else out front uh but i i said yes and i committed to having i i told myself i want to have the best keynote of the conference i know that may come across as arrogant i i wanted to push myself and i i sought out um training and i read books um i went to this great training by this uh speaking speaker um leader melanie spring uh that was like a 90-day training and it was so interesting because at the very end of that training was my keynote okay i learned so much in that but i i found that while it was hard for me it was actually um it's challenging for me to write talks but i i identify it helped me to shape what i believed about quality in a way that was succinct that was clear that i could communicate like these are the things that i believe and here's why and then when people responded to that and they were like that's awesome and i got linked to messages and i was like wow because you know of course i'm like nobody's gonna yeah i'm i'm gonna be the crazy person but like you don't know what you're talking about testing is dead and all these different things and yeah i it didn't i didn't choose it it chose me and i i've been it moved me into coaching more very clearly um yeah it's been great no it's it's great and so often it seems that the things choose us or you know maybe we have to put ourselves in the right position but the the timing is right or what have you right so i mean it's interesting because i i've spoken a few places too and also with the podcast you know what motivated me was to try to reach more people than like where i work you know for example um but it's interesting i mean i don't know where things go right it's interesting just to just to start something well and finish hopefully but yeah no that's a great story erica thanks thanks for sharing that and it's nice to have people in your network who have uh helped support you and give you those opportunities too right so and we pass it along um so your your domain uh from what i i when i learned about you you know is in software quality you you do a lot of that professionally you have a long experience in that but of all the things when i reached out to you you wanted to talk about core values why core values um you know we started this conversation a little while ago so i think when you asked me uh i i i was in a space where i was i i had seen the effects the impact of strongly held core values for our company that we're embedded deeply into an organization and that's what cal only has and i say have it has current because i know that they're still doing it they're still walking them out very very deeply but um what as i looked around as i talked to others as i began to do more coaching i realized that other companies were would say they had core values and i had experienced this before coming to california yeah we have core values but i never knew them i mean i knew them but i couldn't recall them they weren't deeply embedded into the organization they weren't a part of my one-on-ones i i couldn't hold the company accountable i couldn't say you're not walking this particular core value with this response to a leader or to the business and how we're operating outside you know with our customers and so forth and that was that was live chat not life-changing but it was it was impactful it was very impactful for me and as i looked around and i i did more coaching i realized that others didn't have this medium this model to leverage to hold the business hold their leaders accountable um and you see it right now with massive layoffs right you have some companies that are ceos that are saying we value our people and we won't do this because of xyz and we're you know we made good decisions and i'm not saying that a company that is in a position that they need to lay people off for whatever reason doesn't have core values or isn't attempting to walk them out but it's the conversation that's happening outside of that where the team members don't feel like they had the support or they're like they're just like well i guess i was just a number you know right in the chain it's just it's it's that human part and so i guess i wanted to talk about it because i think it's such an impactful thing for individuals and it's our job in the company to help the company see the impact of those core values and then begin to hold them accountable as individuals individual contributors in the org okay find a way to say that more succinctly sorry i'll get them covered no i i i don't know about you but i know that when i've had discussions in the past uh about let's say the business or right the company it's kind of this faceless thing that isn't attributed with human beings but there have to be human beings whether it's a board of dire board of directors ceo executive team etc cetera who make decisions right so it is an interesting prospect to me as you're talking about you've seen a positive experience where you can hold the company right or the leaders or each other accountable um with core values and i think that's fantastic how how common do you think it is for well you've kind of answered it perhaps already how common do you think it is for people to have a situation these days where they are dialed in to what their companies are about and they have a mechanism to uh to hold each other accountable the business accountable the leaders accountable however you want to think of that i don't know that it's i don't know that it's that common uh it's in in my coaching and in you know when i when i engage a company for like workshops and stuff like that it's some of the things that i'm asking what's your culture because your core values are going to drive your culture and if they're embedded deeply they're held closely in the hearts of the humans that are running the business then you're going to get the culture that you wanted when you pen those core values um and some people are saying yeah i know my core values and they'll be kind of this wavering like you know like i like this one and i'm and so i'm i'm asking how intentional they're being about the conversation and and you know calendly does culture well they do culture well calenly is a business they don't do everything well i don't you know nobody agrees with everything that a business does nobody agrees with everything that a family member does you know i don't agree with my husband all the time right so um i'm not saying that they're the they're the bee's knees but they they because i i've had things that i have disagreed with but when you when you have a culture that's centered around your core values you're combining the conversation and you're empowering the people that are in the organization and it's there's intention behind it and so like the the performance reviews house how is this person the question was how is this person walking out this corner that core value and the leader you know whoever's running the manager you know who's ever doing the performance review could you know if they leaned in they'd say core value one this is how this you know you showed up uh and i think a lot of people did that but you don't it's not what you see in organizations it's like yeah we talk about our core values but how are you using them and that's the thing that i think is missing and why i wanted to talk about it because we don't use them they're there but we're not using them that's so it's interesting you're talking about um working with uh clients uh in coaching sessions helping them understand uh what the culture is really like with respect to the core values they have in their organization i i'd like to to talk about maybe the intersection between uh core values of an organization and core values of a person so so what how do i how do i um how do i uncover my own core values i mean is this something i shouldn't just inherently know or i mean i do remember erica once i think it was maybe four years ago brene brown wrote that book uh wrote the book dare to lead and in somewhere early on there were like a list of a million values and it's like well pick two or three of them and and she she also asserted that you know there's no difference between business um your personal and your professional core values i remember my one was follow through i valued follow through um i'm just wondering what commentary you've got on that you know um there's the personal values there's the there's business values um if you own a business your personal values should in theory show up in your business core values right um if you own the business i i would expect that that would surface so there would be some some marriage of who you are as a person who's pouring into this this venture um that you want to see succeed i you know oddly enough when i talk to people about core values i ask them what their pet peeves are what's the thing that irritates you and then and then i say okay uncover the offense like remove did not uncover but remove the offense of the irritant and then ask yourself why it bothers you right so is it lack of consideration is it lack of care is like what is what is the thing that's missing and then what is it that you value about that that's a core value like it's it's usually surfaces in and like things that people you don't even know like i hate that right it's just it's irksome why is it irksome why does it set you on edge and it's an onion you peel it away and then you uncover it's a lack of consideration it's a lack of patience it's a lack of grace you're not starting with human you're not thinking about the human in this the right it's it's those things that that begin to surface and i think people should do the deep work to understand what their personal core values are because it becomes also easier maybe that's easier but you you have the clarity to then identify alignment of your core values with the companies and that's going to get companies to get get employees and keep employees if they're understanding what the employee's core values are the employees understand what their core values are and they see that alignment with the business and they know we're in sync yeah thanks for that that's a great explanation i like you doing the deep work to uncover your core values and i hadn't thought about that tactic of what what really irritates you i like i like that um what really irritates you and then and then and then flip it a little bit um you've talked about calendly a little bit here as as as kind of a one to hold up and and you can think through that lens or not it's up to you but i'm curious would you be willing to share an example um maybe a specific example of where you have seen the positivity of living out core values in the business yeah i mean i i think callumly is closest to it because again we talked about the core values so much um and as the organization shifted uh and then that shifted shift is not a good work as the organization organization just grew as it matured um there were there was expectation of better support for marginalized groups for underrepresented groups um albeit you know gender race uh sexuality there was an expectation of support there and it made it it made the conversation easier it challenged the business because the business you know had to balance making sure that there was equality that you didn't offend somebody else's beliefs by supporting another person's beliefs and i get that and you know that that's that's the world but it was challenging the business through a model that mostly review removes the sting interesting this is how you start with human these are the humans that you want to support this is how you start with human right this is how you strive for excellence in this way in supporting your employees or improving retention and those type of things and so um it yeah it made it easier to have those difficult conversations for employees to come to the business to get the business to show up for them in the way that they want for the culture that they wanted because they we as employees are the culture and that's i think why i wanted to talk about core values and why i said that because it's like we miss that you know companies are saying yeah we want this culture no what are the pure the people that you hired and what core values have you given have you fed into their hearts for them to create for them to create the culture right what does that surface as yeah culture of theory or theory of culture versus reality i mean culture is the reality right yeah i mean like you said penning something down on paper as compared to living it out um that's a great example i and difficult yeah difficult conversations huh yeah like you said no i mean that's interesting i this might be a little tangential but i know you're very you know you're very active on linkedin erica from what i can see right i mean you definitely looks like you're reading a lot of stuff commenting on a lot of stuff things like that so uh it's great to see that i'm curious you know how well do you think we are having difficult conversations in writing over the internet these days you know i mean that that told me before i i don't mean that to be a loaded question around like wow commenting on facebook stories is a nightmare i mean i'm more mean you know perhaps there's a certain mindset on linkedin of saying hey you know this is a professional platform where now personal things are of course on the platform right how well do you think we're interacting in july of 2022 when it comes to some of these hard topics outside or across organizations and people my person is professional i person am a professional and i i take this back to the the the uh what's the word i want to say the tension not the tension the the argument that certain hair in the black community is not professional um okay i personally am a professional um and when i i think about uh the blue haired unicorn madison oh my goodness her last name is escaping me right now because i have another medicine that i was working with but blue haired unicorn and um she talks about like i'm i'm black i'm queer i like these things don't change and i'm also this per person for for my career and it doesn't make me any less or any more than anybody else um and if if somebody can celebrate somebody being married and uh you know having a kid i i love i saw a post recently a woman who worked at microsoft it was a you know shared a shared post or like post so i wasn't sure who she was but she worked at microsoft microsoft has a healthy time off apparently for maternity leave and she just she was just coming back and she had a picture of herself and her baby she was still talking about profession she's like i had this time away from my career to support my newborn child that's professional i took i saw another post i took the time off my company allowed me um nearly four four plus weeks off to go get married and go on a honeymoon that's professional i'm i'm tell i'm talking to you about the intersection of my career and my personal life because i am a person in both of those conversations so i i i would like to see less about i would like to hear less about this doesn't belong on linkedin why yeah yeah you know i i got a new puppy and he's charging into the office and he peed on the red right behind me i want to talk to you about how embarrassed i was in that conversation i'm a person or how my kid roamed into the room and interrupted the meeting and they thought it was cute and i was terrified because it was so embarrassing because you know my child wanted to have a full conversation and stare at herself in the camera i'm a person um we've gotta as we're telling people how they're expected to show up um and if you don't like the way they're showing up look the other way it's it's interesting that i mean what you said about i'm a person and i'm a professional gosh that sounds simple right i mean it really can't be professional without first being a person yeah yeah it really sounds simple yeah i mean i just there's so much there's so much judgment if i don't like what you're saying i you know there are some things that i don't like seeing on linkedin you know what i do oh how did i get connected to you disconnect yeah i don't agree with your core values i don't agree with your messaging i don't want to see that in my feed disconnect i don't need to argue with you about it um you know there are definitely some things it's like we can't we there's no agree disagree on right like you know i'm not going to get into politics and there are some things that are just like we can't agree to disagree on me being a person of value and stuff like that um but i also don't need to spend the time convincing you sure and i think that's what happens is people are like i need to convince you why you're wrong why yeah no kidding huh i i i i liked what you said too maybe about if if my uh if my core values don't align with your core values then maybe we just don't have to have to interact right i mean uh let's talk about your core values a little bit so i i just pasted this from your site um your very nice redesigned site erica chestnut.com uh the four the four uh core values here are start with human which you've already said several times naturally in conversation give grace be patient strive for accountability and be intentional we've gone through start with human kind of incidentally quite a bit here right um when you say give grace be patient um what does that mean to you give others the grace give others in yourself the the space the give them the space to fail give them the space to succeed give them the space to laugh to cry give them the space whatever that spaces they need that's the grace and then give them the time to recover to settle to balance that's the patience give yourself and others maybe i'm coming in and i am excited by something or i'm spun up about something you know when i think about my 101s i've got to give my team members the grace to be in that moment and and you know we we we don't have like you know infinite amount of time so do you have to kind of reign it in some points or you know work to identify like is there something that you need can i support you etc but then giving them that patience in that moment also to like let me level out that's that's the breath that you you take um you see it with kids right when you just you tell and i'm not saying that your your team members or my team members or anybody's children i don't want that to come across that way but like when i think about my children i sometimes just have to say let's take a breath together you know and and whatever it is they failed at something and there's there's going to be a correction so let's take a breath together and then let's move through it together so grace and patience is is about the space and recovery start with human give grace be patient strive for accountability be intentional how do you see the relationship in these four things for yourself relationship for myself um i'm trying to connect how what your thought can you phrase that in a different way yeah i'm i'm thinking does one lead to another are they just four values gone through your exercise of what annoys you right the bet i'm curious yeah if zero yeah yeah they're all they they they are all founded on start with human and i gotta plug calendly again because i definitely stole that from callumly it was i always talk about you know i start and stop everything on relationship and that is through communication and engaging and it's starting with human like where do we start there and then it's like they sit on top of that i mean you know when i'm starting with human i've got to give grace and be patient when i'm starting with human i need to hold myself accountable to ask and asking how i can help how i can support that other human and when i'm being intentional i am reaching purposefully for that other human i am it they they sit on top of start with human it's the foundation it's without that yeah but they they they work to like how do how am i supporting you some you know people say servant leadership it's kind of buzzy it became kind of a buzz word right but that's that is what it embodies that is that is when you break it apart like that's for me what servant leadership is i am how am i serving this human in front of me do they need great grace and patience do they need to be do they need me to be accountable in supporting them somehow or finding ways that i can help do they need me to help that hold them accountable do they need me to be intentional in something for them or for me or for us or for the company etc yeah so start with human the foundation the one that that that bears the load of the others for sets the others up however you want to think about that love it okay that's how i'm gonna write it now i gotta do a diagram for that now that i hadn't considered it like that you know but it really is start with human is is it the core of it cool that's great erica thank you i i wanted to um again i've got your website up here i'm looking at it uh one of the tabs on your website is powerhouse what is that all about that's that is coming soon um i'm a woman in tech i am a black woman in tech i am the minority minority in the room most times i'm a black woman in tech leader i it's it's i can count one time on my hands where i have been um the not where i have not been the only woman in the room reporting to the c-suite the only black person in the room reporting to the c s my direct c-suite count one time that that's happened um and so powerhouse which is the question powerhouse uh as as i shifted from calendly as i as i began to you know as i really began to dive into coaching and having women specifically reach out to me and really just finding in that what i believed about women in tech and what what i had learned in my career and what i wish i knew earlier i was like i just want to share this i want to share it and i would and i would get feedback you know from from women that just would have a 10 minute call with me and it would be gosh you're going to make me cry or man i never thought about it like that or man i needed this today and i just i want to give that to more women and so it's a course it's a course and community for women in tech like me and emerging leaders women women who are growing you know there's so many there's so many uh so many um there is so there are so many executive leadership platforms coachings those things but that space where someone like a miriam who is excellent in all of these ways and could benefit from somebody helping them turn the box on their idea of leadership their idea of what it means to climb the proverbial corporate ladder um helping you know when i think about another person who helping them gain the clarity so that they have the confidence that they need to step out there because as women we deal with and men do too i know but women especially deal with imposter syndrome we are again the minority with 70 70 of um you know approximate it fluctuates but 70 of people in technology are men yeah i totally believe in that yeah right 30 are women it it's it's easy the the language is different the viewpoint is different and that's why we need to work on diversity that's you know the whole the whole idea of the apple watch came out and didn't have a period tracker or these type of yeah yeah right it's it's like all of that but it's it's we've got to be competent enough to speak up um and we have to have clarity about who we are what we do what our what our value is what our strengths are so that we can confidently say that's not my that's not my lane but let me tell you all about what is my lane and how amazing it is and why you want to speak with me and why i can how i can help you and in these type of things like we get so caught up in what we are afraid we can't do or won't show up as and we sometimes forget so powerhouse is about really pouring into women in tech and helping them gain their clarity by identifying their north star um working on looking at their communication style their leadership dna i call it kind of their powerhouse profile what is it you know are you results oriented are you an influencer or a steady or a dominant kind of organizer and what does that look like and how do you leverage those as your strengths and move in technology as a woman in tech i love the relation the relationship between so many of the things so far here uh the powerhouse course helping women in tech with with so many elements and finding that confidence because with the confidence you then have the um you can speak up around the accountability more like you're saying if you if you have a bunch of core values in your business but you don't have the confidence to speak up to it or the safety let's just say it's not quite safe enough yet for you you got to break over right break through to have with your confidence i love the relationship between that because you can see how these things could start to feed each other right yeah that's great yeah yeah i can't tell you how many times again as i feel like i'm talking only about calenly i don't even work there i love callum lee shout out to only use the product i still use the product it's amazing um but there were times where i was speaking up in in spaces and after the meeting and sometimes even during the meeting i would get pains thank you for saying that and it was always it was always women it was always women and you've got to sometimes do it scared right like uh i saw somebody's it was an instagram post where she was calling she was challenging nike to do this like do it scared uh like just do it do it scared and she's like yeah just do it when i'm a pro athlete just do it but sometimes i just gotta do it scared do it anxious do it fearful do it with stress you know all these different things and i had that but i had to just do it because i had a i had a voice i had a seat at a table that others were not at yeah and just like stacy kirk she had a seat at a table that i wasn't at and she pulled me into the conversation and it it completely changed how i've what i'm doing you know like i still love quality but i've found this new love and value of quality culture and leadership these three things that all for me are this beautiful trifecta that i i'm i love to speak about and that started with her bringing me into the room and it starts with me being in a space and speaking up about something that i'm hearing others say in private to me and being the person that's like this isn't okay and challenging and we've all we all have to have that clarity so we can get that confidence and and i related to what you're just saying there too if you're thinking somebody else is probably thinking it anyway right so don't be afraid to ask the silly questions yeah somebody has to do it you know and if you're always asking the silly questions you're going to be the first to know the answer that's a good point you know like if you if you you will if you walk in the door and you you say i don't know and every time you say you i don't know you ask the question you will never not know it will be the new thing and they'll be like oh yeah you don't know because i didn't tell you and that's hard i will say that's hard for me even because you never want to show up and feel like people think that you don't know something or they expect you to know something but if you start at the beginning saying i don't know what that is what is that and then they tell you and then the next thing that surfaces as long as it's different don't keep asking exactly your boss is gonna be like listen i just had this conversation with you but um yeah if you don't ask the silly question you're not you're never going to know but if you ask you'll be the first to know yeah thanks for that erica yeah well great stuff today i i've got to ask you before before we go the same question i ask everybody it doesn't have to be related to work or anything but what is something that you've learned recently perfectionism breeds procrastination and i connected it with progress over perfection like i always thought oh yeah i you know i'm not a perfectionist i i i'm i'm i'm yeah i make progress but i i struggled with procrastination and i couldn't figure out why i was like why like get it done get it and it was because it was the perfectionism hiding it was masked inside of procrastination it was a breeding ground for it and um so when i find that i'm stalling or when i find that like i'm just i'm not looking at this like okay what what is it that i'm not moving forward what is like what is the best next best step what is the thing that i'm i'm stalling on because i don't feel it's going to be perfect or i'm not going to show up well and i i deal with this like social media i got to post out i want to talk to people i can't tell you the trello board that i have of of half-baked social media posts that i just like i just need to click the button on and you'll see people say like i did 30 days 90 days 60 days every day i posted and i got better and it got i got more confident and i got more comfortable um it's hard you have to really like just saying progress over perfection i think wasn't clicking for me until i realized that it was perfectionism that was a breeding ground for procrastination i said oh i can now i can say am i stalling what am i trying to make 100 right and it helps me to propel forward hence my new site launch i got it done in a week and i can tell you that it's not perfect but it is much better and has more clarity and things that i really wanted to put out there for people to to see and know and share about what i believe in opportunities with me that it's now there i'll just continue to tweak it exactly and and thanks for sharing and being open about the idea there uh for you about the procrastination uh breeding perfectionism because i think a lot of people will probably identify with that or you know one way or the other they'll it'll plant a seed i think a lot of people will probably will probably hear that and the knowledge worker domains right i mean there are a lot of intrinsically motivated people who are capable of doing a lot of amazing things and it wouldn't shock me if a lot of people are are experiencing similar things um i i appreciate it all today erica i'm so happy to have been able to talk to you finally and uh so much great stuff here about core values uh tough conversations uh et cetera et cetera for those who are interested in learning a little bit more about you or about what you're up to your services ideas etc where would you like to direct them and they can also check the show notes but where would you like to direct them uh www.erikachestmatt.com erica with a k chestnut.com um or find me on linkedin love to talk to new people on linkedin perfect well thanks so much erica it's been fun for me and and i had a good time talking so thanks for putting some time aside and uh have a good rest of the day yeah thank you it was great to be here i appreciate it okay