S5E5: Reclaim and Reinvent Yourself with Dr. Katia Vlachos

Dr. Katia Vlachos is a reinvention coach, speaker, and author of A Great Move: Surviving and Thriving in Your Expat Assignment, recognized as a Financial Times Business Book of the Month in June 2018. With a Masters from the Harvard Kennedy School and a PhD from the RAND Graduate School, Katia began her career as a policy analyst. Her work has been featured in the New York Times, Harvard Business Review, and other media outlets globally.

Through her coaching, writing, or transformative retreats, Katia is committed to empowering women to chart their own ambitious paths towards a fulfilling, uncaged life. She lives in Zurich, Switzerland, with her family. Her upcoming book, "Uncaged: A Good Girl’s Journey to Reinvention," explores the themes of breaking free from social conditioning, making bold choices, and reclaiming one’s authentic self.

https://www.katiavlachos.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiavlachos/

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Expatriation

•  Once you leave where you grew up, it’s hard to find that sense of belonging again
•  You’re a foreigner in a new place (expatriation) and also when you go back “home” (repatriation)
•  Learn to be at home wherever you are
•  Both you and the places you leave behind change
•  If you go back home, approach it as another expatriation
•  Learn to be at home with people rather than places

“A Great Move” Book

•  People who voluntarily move do so for 3 primary reasons: career/prospects, love, adventure
•  The attitude of the adventurer is wonderful but can lead to being unprepared
• Understanding transition stages (honeymoon, crisis, recovery, adjustment)
•  Personality traits affect the emotional impact 
•  Creating home is a key pillar of feeling stable and grounded

 Being Stuck

•  Factors that affect us: values, expectations, growth, partner, environment
•  Some circumstances can keep us stuck, but 90% is about how we approach it (Mindset)
•  Focusing on the barriers versus focusing on your goals or vision
•  Conditioning (upbringing, labels, roles, events) matters and shapes us

Reinvention Roadmap

•  Establish a healthy baseline
•  Reconnect with ourselves
•  Align with values, vision, and purpose
•  Build momentum with baby steps
•  Deal with saboteurs
•  Sustain the reinvented person

Leadership Voyage
site: leadership.voyage
email: StartYourVoyage@gmail.com
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@LeadershipVoyage
linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonallenwick/, https://www.linkedin.com/company/leadership-voyage-podcast/
music: by Napoleon (napbak)
https://www.fiverr.com/napbak
voice: by Ayanna Gallant
www.ayannagallantVO.com
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Transcript

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Jason Wick: Okay, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of leadership voyage. I'm happy to be with you all again today, and I am lucky to be with Dr. Katya Vlacos today from Switzerland. Nice to be with you, Katya.

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Katia Vlachos: It's wonderful to be here.

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Jason Wick: Yeah, it's nice to meet you. It's nice to have a little brief chat here to start things off before we click the record button, but thank you for being generous with your time. At the end of a week overseas compared to where I am in the Us. So I'm looking forward to digging into a few things with you today.

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Katia Vlachos: Yeah, thank you, Jason. I'm excited.

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Jason Wick: You bet.

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Jason Wick: So today I was thinking about this conversation kind of in 2 sections, and the first, I think I'd like to talk

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Jason Wick: about you and some of your experiences. And there's a book that you wrote and getting into this topic of expats and and and what that all means. And I'm actually really fascinated because I've realized in preparing for this, I know almost nothing about this topic. So that'll be fun for me.

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Jason Wick: And then the second part I would love to focus on is kind of what you do, and you're a reinvention coach, and

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Jason Wick: and how we can kind of help people out there who might feel stuck, and those are kind of the the 2 halves I'm thinking of here.

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Jason Wick: But first I Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, go ahead.

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Katia Vlachos: No no no go ahead! Go ahead! Go.

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Jason Wick: We're gonna have. We're gonna have the delay, I think cause of the how far apart we are. And that's okay. I if I step. If I speak over you. I I apologize in advance. It was it was the delay.

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Jason Wick: I found your a bio of yours on Huffington Post. Real looks like you had contributed, and it says that you are Greek by birth, but a perpetual foreigner by choice, and I found that wording very interesting. It's a 7 year old biography. So maybe you still identify or don't identify with that wording. But I had to ask you, what what's behind that a per, a foreigner, perpetual foreigner by choice.

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Katia Vlachos: Yeah, so

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Katia Vlachos: I think it. It's still, it's still valid, actually. And and we we can talk a bit more about foreign or in home, and all that. These are all topics are very close to my heart, but

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Katia Vlachos: it kind of says that once you

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Katia Vlachos: how can I say it? Once you leave your country of origin, and I won't say home, because, you know, once you leave, you have so many homes.

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Katia Vlachos: it's very hard to find that sense of belonging that a person who grows up in one place only knows one place never moves, never lives anywhere else has.

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Katia Vlachos: So you're always there's something missing always, and I don't think you ever find that. And of course there's there's many rewards to that life that that make it. You know they make it worth it. It's fine you get used to it, but it's part of that life that wherever you are.

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Katia Vlachos: but at least I will feel like I'm a little bit of a foreigner, and and the irony is I'm also a foreigner where I come from. I'm also a foreigner in Greece. Right? There are aspects of me

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Katia Vlachos: that feel foreign to others, and and also this part of me that feels that feels foreign towards others. So if that makes any sense. It's kind of you you lose that, that groundedness you have.

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Katia Vlachos: You gain a different kind of groundedness, and maybe we'll we'll talk about this, you know. You learn to be at home wherever you are, you learn to be at home with people rather than places. Right? So it it. It transforms. It's kind of a different sense of belonging. But when I when I say perpetual foreigners kind of accepting that this, this is my life. Now, you know I'm I'm

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Katia Vlachos: it's it's a different kind of connection

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Katia Vlachos: I have to to location.

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Jason Wick: Yeah, that's a very interesting distinction. How maybe we focus on the geography of things. As opposed to the people. Maybe sometimes.

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Jason Wick: and I think so many of us out here, so many of us out there can identify with relocating in in some form.

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Jason Wick: I was just talking to someone at work yesterday, and I grew up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in the Us. And then I said, Oh, actually, I haven't. I haven't lived there in 27 years, right, as you said about Greece. Maybe you're a foreigner now to the place that you grew up

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Jason Wick: before, because you've been away from there for so long. Right? It's it's a fascinating thing to think about. Really.

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Katia Vlachos: Yeah. And it's it doesn't have to be very different. I mean, if you move within the Us. Or if you move countries right? Actually it is. It is pretty similar, because the cultures are so different. Right? But the idea is, once you leave, there's there's really no going back both. I think both like in practical terms, but also kind of emotionally in terms of of you. The way you are. You change right. The place you've left behind has changed. So every time you go back is it's kind of a different

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Katia Vlachos: encounter.

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Jason Wick: Yeah, yeah, no, I'm a again. I'm really kind of fascinated by the topic, because, you know, I think we've always said, you know, at least I'm speaking primarily from, you know, a United States upbringing, of course, but, like, you know, go away to college, you know, broaden your horizons. Things like that, and you're right as soon as you go. Do those things, and you meet people who aren't like you.

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Jason Wick: When you look back at where you're from it looks a lot different. It really does. Yeah.

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Katia Vlachos: Totally. Totally. And that's there's actually 2 things is a lot of people who who go back like it's called repatriation. Right? It's expatriation when you go in repatriation when you go home, like, maybe you're in the foreign service, and then you have, like a home Stent, or whatever, and they expect to go home, and everything's gonna be like they left it, and they're not gonna need any support. Then they're gonna be totally like adjusted. And and they have culture shock right? Going back home.

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Katia Vlachos: And and what I always tell them is like, no expect like you like address it or or approach it as another expatriation. Because you're going to foreign country now.

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Katia Vlachos: Right? It's it's it's home, and it's not home at the same time. So know what's like, be prepared. And the other interesting thing is is what you said about people. You know you meet your people, you, you leave your country, you meet other people, you you, you get used to certain lifestyle. You meet people who have similar backgrounds in in terms not not where they come from and all that, but in terms of the kind of lifestyle that you're having right to connect.

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Katia Vlachos: And and then there's a lot of people who go back home.

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Katia Vlachos: and they end up hanging out with foreigners, because, rather than their, you know, compatriots, because because they're the ones who get them

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Katia Vlachos: more right again shows you how you've changed. Then, you know you, you're used to different things. And you connect more with people with or used to these these different things.

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Katia Vlachos: Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah.

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Jason Wick: Absolutely does. Yeah, no, thanks, I think, for people listening. I have to imagine a lot of them can relate to exactly what you're talking about. And and I mean, obviously, you've spent a lot of time thinking about this, studying it and and experiencing it. And you wrote a book a few years back called a Great Move.

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Jason Wick: and in the in the blurb for that book it says, I think over 50 million expatriates are out there, and I don't know if what that number is today but just so that we can kind of calibrate and level. Set a little bit around it. You know what.

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Jason Wick: from your point of view and your study, what are the primary reasons that people are moving to a country that's different from their native one.

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Katia Vlachos: Yeah, interesting. So interesting, ask about the number, because I try to get some updates. And honestly, it's really hard to get any numbers right? Like every website you go to, they're like, yeah, it's very hard to calculate the number of expenses. So that number was like supposed to be 87 million in 2021, 87. But again, by some accounts, and you know, the UN. Says, a different numbers is like 281 million. So.

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Jason Wick: A lot.

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Katia Vlachos: Not start, but.

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Jason Wick: It is easy.

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Katia Vlachos: It's it's a lot. And I think you know, there was maybe a little dip during Covid. But I think it's it's potentially increasing as well, and it's getting harder and harder to to measure or to count.

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Katia Vlachos: But I I find, you know, from from my research, my experience, but also my work. I started as an expert coach. So I worked a lot with people who make these kinds of transitions. One, there's 3 key reasons. One is career slash economic. So you know better prospects or work assignments, or very specific, or are better financial prospects.

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Katia Vlachos: so that's that's one part. Then you have love. We call them love paths. So you follow, you follow somebody abroad, and and the third one that some people will do. Maybe a smaller percentage is is adventure and broadening of horizons. And not just single people, but also people with families like, I wanna show my kids

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Katia Vlachos: something different. I want them to have a different experience. I want them to learn a new language, and and just like open the rise to the world. So so these are the 3 key reasons I have found are the most relevant here, you know. I wanted to

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Katia Vlachos: specify that I'm talking. You know, the experts I'm talking in that book are voluntary, skilled migrants. It's their choice

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Katia Vlachos: to do that.

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Jason Wick: Right, so.

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Katia Vlachos: Yeah, there's there's a lot of cases where it's not right. Obviously, so.

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Jason Wick: Yeah, exactly. I was thinking about that a little bit

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Jason Wick: this morning again, like I said, early on I it just hit me like how little I know about this topic. And I was thinking like, Wow, that doesn't even think about immigration. And you know, we're not gonna get into politics or any of that. But in the Us. It's like the number one issue people are concerned about, maybe other than economy right now, you know. And so that's a whole other bucket. Maybe we'll just kind of acknowledge that it's a thing and not. That's not what we're talking about today. But

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Katia Vlachos: It's it's a choice element that makes a difference here. Yeah.

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Jason Wick: Yeah, thanks for acknowledging that.

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Katia Vlachos: Button.

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Jason Wick: We we talked a little bit, you know, kind of just touched on some of these ideas of of what happens when you when you make these moves.

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Jason Wick: what are the emotional impacts on a person or on a family when they do indeed move to a new country?

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Katia Vlachos: so so many good and bad. No, there's there's there's no bad this, I think it's it's it's more about how you approach it right? So so one key thing to know. And I talk a lot about it in the book is.

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Katia Vlachos: there is a there is a process of transition. And it's important to understand that process. So yes, of course, every every move, every transition is is unique. But there are certain stages you go through. And there's research on that. So there's like something called the U curve of adjustment or the U curve of culture shock, which has, you know, distinct stages. You have the the honeymoon

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Katia Vlachos: stage, the crisis, then you have what is it? Recovery and then adjustment? And they may have slightly different names depending on the researcher. But but kind of it shows you, you know, it's like the honeymoon you start.

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Katia Vlachos: you know. Hi, that everything is new and exciting, and you know, after a while you realize you're not a tourist, and this is your life, and you can't just leave. And then there's like a little bit of a crisis or a lot of a crisis. It depends right? And then, you know, as you, as time passes in, you start getting used to think, and you start accepting rather than resisting, or you start seeing the silver linings. Then you have the recovery.

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Katia Vlachos: and in the end you know where you can actually say I feel at home here. I feel like, you know, I'm more stable. I'm more grounded. That's the kind of the adaptation phase.

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Katia Vlachos: and those stages are more or less the same, but you know the duration or the sequence, you know they can. They can vary widely. I've had, you know, a move where I didn't have a honeymoon at all. I went straight into crisis, or I had, you know, honeymoons that could have been, you know, 3 months or 2 years. It it really depends on on so many other factors, on the person, on the circumstances, on, you know whether you move with the family or not. So.

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Jason Wick: Rent.

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Katia Vlachos: 1. One big impact is is this the impact of the actual? You know, transition stages on you. And if you don't know what's coming. It can really hit your heart right. You can feel, you know, homeless, and you can feel depressed, or you can feel anxious like there's all sorts of things that can happen. If you have a sense of what's coming, you feel less alone, you you can anticipate. You can get support.

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Katia Vlachos: possible. You know you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. So awareness is is makes makes a big difference for this one.

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Katia Vlachos: Another important set of challenges has to do with personality. You know some people adapt better than others, and you know again, in the book I talk about different personality traits like the Big 5, and how, I don't know, being an extrovert versus an introvert makes a difference, or being more open to new experiences, or you know, being more emotionally stable. So there's different

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Katia Vlachos: traits that make you that can make it easier for you.

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Katia Vlachos: Therefore the impact the emotional impact may vary.

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Katia Vlachos: Now, another thing of course, is, you know,

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Katia Vlachos: the whole idea of home, and whether you're prepared to create a new home, and whether you know what you need to feel at home.

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Katia Vlachos: When you land into a new place, you haven't thought about these things. You can feel. You know you can feel homesick. You can feel isolated. You're far from your support system. You usually have to start from scratch

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Katia Vlachos: all that can can weigh on a person right? You know you. Maybe you move alone, and they're kind of you know you. You feel lonely. You're not connected when you land somewhere, and you don't know anybody. Or maybe you move with the family and your partner is deeply unhappy and hates it there, or your kids are having trouble at school again, emotional impact. You know, the whole family kind of feels that. So

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Katia Vlachos: you know, there's there's

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Katia Vlachos: creating home is kind of like one of the pillars of of my method, or whatever you wanna call it, is like, you know, know what you need. Know where you're gonna look for it, you know, of course, do your homework and preparation and all that. But it's more about.

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Katia Vlachos: you know the feeling stable and grounded and and and and being able to put roots down. And if you're intentional about that

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Katia Vlachos: again, it's it's a game changer.

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Katia Vlachos: does. Does that kind of the question. I mean, there's so much, but it's it's it's just it can go either way, depending on on how, where you are, how you know how much or or how little preparation you've done but also how you, how you you go in. You're going to make it work, or you go in kind of, you know, kicking and screaming.

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Jason Wick: The mindset.

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Katia Vlachos: And you know, mindset is huge. Having done both, I can tell you. That's a big difference in the outcomes.

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Jason Wick: I was. Gonna I was gonna follow up a little bit on on personally. There, you know, you've said you've gone through this process several times, and you've studied it. And so, you know, just from a distance, I would make this assumption that you've got this thing down to a science, and you know how to do it right. I'm curious for you, with, however many moves that you've.

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Katia Vlachos: College. Okay. Now.

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Jason Wick: You do. But okay, so that's why you know, the growth is what yields the learning, of course, right? So.

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Katia Vlachos: Yeah, yeah, I I wrote the book I wanted to have available.

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Jason Wick: There it is!

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Katia Vlachos: When I was. Thank you.

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Jason Wick: That's but.

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Katia Vlachos: I I did. You know I did learn the hard way, so I wanted to help. You know my fellow experts not to have to go through, you know. The same the same kind of roller coaster or at least to you know, lesser extent. So yeah, I've been dragging and screaming, and I've moved and and made the most of it fully committed. So I've I've had yeah, all the different variations, absolutely.

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Jason Wick: I've experienced them all, and thank you for earlier on there kind of outlining the the You curve, and you know it. It doesn't sound exactly the same, but kind of like stages of grief, or, you know, going through a transition of another type of change and things like that, I I I think it. It strikes me that th there's probably so much going on in someone's life when they're relocating that

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Jason Wick: being caught off guard by the emotional impact and not preparing for that part of it sounds a little easy to have happen right? On accident. If there's just so many logistical things, probably, or I'm starting this new job, and I'm nervous or excited, or whatever it is. Like, you said, it sounds like a huge topic. I wanted to

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Jason Wick: just briefly talk about the adventurer. Yeah, you talked about for work, for love or for adventure. And and I I there's a you know, program here in the United States on National Public radio called this American life. And

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Jason Wick: I think I heard an episode of I don't know how long ago. Okay, I don't know how long. Yes, I don't know how long ago I heard this, but I it was called, I think, an American in Paris, and what they had done is they? They talked to a few people who had moved from the Us. To Paris because of the romantic notion of moving there just in the general sense, romantic notion, right? And ultimately what they concluded, I'm really simplifying here. But

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Jason Wick: ultimately they just concluded that yeah, I mean, after 6 weeks, you know, that's that's where I live, right? It's not Paris in quotations anymore. It's just the place I live right. And it made me think a little bit about that.

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Katia Vlachos: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that that you know that honeymoon, the honeymoon can only last so long. Right?

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Jason Wick: That's something we think, yeah.

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Katia Vlachos: Relative, and

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Katia Vlachos: then it's it's your new home. Make it work, you know. I the the thing with adventure, and I I see that a lot a lot. Okay, I've I've seen that quite a few times. People just go, you know, head first. They dive in, and it's all so exciting. And and it's wonderful to have that kind of enthusiasm. But then that's you know, it's

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Katia Vlachos: they're they're completely unprepared for what's coming like you said they they. They think it's all gonna be like super fun and and easy. And then, you know, their kid doesn't want to go to school and like but why

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Katia Vlachos: or or they don't think long term. And they're like, Yeah, we want our kids to learn the new language. And you know, because of throw them into the local school, speak a word, and and the first few months are tough, right? It gets better. But but just be prepared that the first few months. You know, your kids are gonna be like throwing tantrums. And and you know, not having any friends. And

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Katia Vlachos: so it's it's really all about expectations, I think and and kind of

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Katia Vlachos: anticipating a little bit. I'm preparing a little bit. Yeah.

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Jason Wick: So let's let's kind of use that as an opportunity to kind of shift, you know, to transition gears of our own here in our conversation, because

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Jason Wick: whether it's as an expat unprepared in a new country and you know, you're not quite. The honeymoon was quick, and now we're moving on to all the other emotions, or it's something else in our lives that's totally separate topic to what we've talked about so far. People can get to a place where they're stuck, whether they know it or not. Maybe even they can get to these places where they're having a hard time breaking through and and finding

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Jason Wick: whatever is their next thing, or embracing the right mindset. Right? And let's let's start to get into what you do as a reinvention coach.

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Jason Wick: So on your website, there is. There's this, there's this quiz. It's called the Break free quiz, and I'd encourage everybody to check it out. If you want, the link will be in the show notes, but it asks a variety of questions about work and personal life and other things, and there are a few themes in some of the questions in this break free quiz that you're asking us to answer for ourselves.

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Jason Wick: You ask us about values. You have just referenced expectations a couple of minutes ago. We talk about growth. You ask about growth, what we, what we want for our own growth. Our partner in life. The environment we're in

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Jason Wick: are any one of these things kind of more important than the other when it comes to

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Jason Wick: how someone sees themself in their life, and you know that just.

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Katia Vlachos: We.

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Jason Wick: Idea.

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Katia Vlachos: Yeah. Well, what you said. You said it. You said how someone sees themselves.

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Katia Vlachos: And I was going to say, every stuckness is unique and different, just like every move. But

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Katia Vlachos: what makes a difference is not whether it's, you know, professional or relationship, or a location, or whatever what. And of course, I wanna acknowledge that there are some circumstances that are very real and and very limiting, you know. Your company sends you to a new country. You. You don't get to choose, or you get to.

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Katia Vlachos: you know, get a different job right? But you don't, really. You can't do that, or you're in a toxic relationship, and you're financially dependent and can't leave. Or you have young children and can't leave, or you know you hate your job. But you can't leave, because

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Katia Vlachos: you know, otherwise how are you gonna survive? So there, there are circumstances that keep us that can keep us stuck. But I think at the end of the day. If you dig deeper, it's a lot about how we approach the circumstances. So it's it's a lot or or like 90 is about mindset and and I again, mindset is kind of that, the core of my work, because it makes such a difference. First of all, recognizing what it is that keeps you stuck, what kind of

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Katia Vlachos: approach or thinking? And then, of course, doing something about it? Obviously so

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Katia Vlachos: again, irrespective of the area. What can keep you stuck? It can be you know the the difference between having a victim mindset versus an empowered one. Right? So do you see things as happening to you. Do you feel like you don't have a choice, do you? Or do you take responsibility for your for your choices and for your life, and and actually, you know, feel empowered to make those choices

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Katia Vlachos: do you have a fixed or a growth mindset? You know again the things that happen to you. Is it something you're kind of like? Oh, my God, I you know I have!

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Katia Vlachos: I I there's nothing I can do about it. Or Oh, you know, this challenge is a learning opportunity, and I can. I can rise above. I have, you know. It's kind of the the Carol Dwight. Kind of fixed mindset versus growth. Mindset, you know, is failure. You know. Just kind of the terminal thing, or is it a stepping stone to to on our path to success.

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Katia Vlachos: Do you focus on on all the barriers and all the things that come in your way? Or do you focus on the possibilities do you focus, you know, on on yeah, what's what's available

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Katia Vlachos: for you again? Here, you know, just to give an example. If if if you focus on the barriers, that's what your brain is. Gonna see? Or more of that, right? If you're

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Katia Vlachos: not.

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Katia Vlachos: You know, if you're focusing on your goal, your vision, then then your brain will naturally see more opportunities, because, you know, you will filter the information that's coming at you through that lens. So it's it's it's a lot of a attitude. So what? That's one big part of the of the being stuck again. That doesn't have to do with a specific area.

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Katia Vlachos: And the other part that I that I found that and both can coexist and they do is is all the you know. It's a conditioning.

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Katia Vlachos: So basically, all the belief you know the way we were, you know, the beliefs who adopted early on in life because of how we were raised. You know, our parents and family, the labels of the roles we took on. Maybe it's it's a event that happened, and it really doesn't have to be super traumatic. It can be just one thing that happened to you, and it shaped the way you see a certain aspect of life. I don't know. I had a bad experience. When I was 10, you know public speaking. I

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Katia Vlachos: I'm not a good public speaker. I will never speak again. It took me 30 years to speak right. I love it. I love speaking, but I I couldn't do it for 30 years, because of one thing that happened to me. So

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Katia Vlachos: you know the the

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Katia Vlachos: these these things are shaped early on, and they can, you know, they can serve us in the moment, but they stay with us through life, and a lot of them are not conscious. So they they really shape the way we approach our circumstances. I think they shape our mindset as well. But they're they're stories. They're just stories, and

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Katia Vlachos: If we're not aware of them, they keep us stuck.

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Katia Vlachos: So I would say, you know, I know all good things come in threes, but this one is is, I see, mindset and conditioning are like my 2 big pillars of stuckness here.

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Jason Wick: Okay, that's I mean, no, that's very clarifying. Thank you for sharing all that. And and also for the example, I think either, even if someone hasn't had that direct experience of the the speaking moment as a 10 year old, they can imagine it or have seen it right. I mean something embarrassing at that impressionable age. And then suddenly, I I'm a bad public speaker, and that's that's it. Right. That's that.

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Jason Wick: That circumstance has kind of informed me, moving forward in a fixed, mindset type of way. And and I can we? We can all like, relate to that. So thanks for sharing something like that. It strikes. It strikes me that.

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Jason Wick: you have these 2 pillars right? But if we, if we kind of visualize them as like a box that we're opening and looking into. It's it's a little bit bigger than just the size of that box. It's kind of goes into this enormous, you know, science fiction type, world of it's it's huge, it's it's really heavy stuff, right? And

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Jason Wick: that gets us to this idea of it's it's one thing to kind of

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Jason Wick: identify or help kind of see? Oh, now I know.

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Jason Wick: Maybe I have a hypothesis why I'm stuck, or one of the reasons why I might be stuck.

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Jason Wick: and then the next part is, well, okay. Now, what right? And so for you, with with the services and the work that you do with clients trying to help people in their lives. You have this this reinvention roadmap, if I understand it right, and it's some steps to help people. I think, if I understand, get unstuck, and

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Jason Wick: to reinvent themselves, I would love for you to talk as much or as little as you want. You can do a little bit, and I can ask be from there, or you can walk us through the whole thing. But I think I'd love to hear a little bit about about that.

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Katia Vlachos: Absolutely so.

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Katia Vlachos: the the origins of the reinvention roadmap real quickly is, I've been through multiple reinventions myself, personal and professional. And I've also worked with a lot of people going through their own, you know, live transitions and reinventions. And I I found that, you know again, even though every process is unique. There are certain steps that everyone goes through. And again, maybe the sequence is kind of different or the duration of each each step. But

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Katia Vlachos: but but they're always there. And it's funny, because ever since I I developed the roadmap and I use my client, I noticed like, Oh, yes, this this is actually working. So.

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Jason Wick: But yeah.

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Katia Vlachos: It's yeah, which is always good validation. No, but so so these these 6 key steps. Are, you know, first of all, establishing a healthy baseline. So if you're in survival mode, if you're if you're in fight or flight, you you know you don't sleep. You don't eat well, you know just really the basic. If if you don't have time for yourself, if you don't, you know, if your soul doesn't feel nurtured, which I think is as important as sleeping and eating and exercising and

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Katia Vlachos: and all that. Then then you cannot think creatively about the future. You can't set goals, you can't. You know, work on strategies. And and you know, reinvention is just kind of a distant dream, right? You first need to feel like you're not surviving.

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Katia Vlachos: So that's that's the absolute first step that I go through, because a lot of people who come to me, they're, you know, feeling stuck and be very exhausting. And there's a lot of circumstances in their lives that

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Katia Vlachos: you know, that leave them depleted. And and so, yeah, so they are in this kind of survival

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Katia Vlachos: mode, or their minds are are in that mode.

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Katia Vlachos: So that's the first step, then, then, there's the reconnect and reclaim, I call it. You know, there's there's going back to the essence of of who you were before. All the conditioning we just talked about, you know, before all the layers were kind of piled on you. Cause, you know, you may come today and say, Hey, I've lost one, you know. I don't feel confident, or you know a lot of people say I don't recognize myself. Well, yourself. It's still there.

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Katia Vlachos: Let's see, let's see, let's dig and and find that confidence you have it. It's in you. You've just moved away from it. You've lost touch because life, because you know the beliefs you know, you think are yours, but they're not really

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Katia Vlachos: so we we

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Katia Vlachos: find that person again. Right? So it's interesting because it's reinvention. It's supposed to be the person you become. But it's also, you know, reconnecting to the person.

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Jason Wick: Back, too.

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Katia Vlachos: You become from that? Yeah? So then the third step is is I call it the alignment framework. So it's you. Basically you know you define and reconnect with your values, your sense of purpose, your vision.

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Katia Vlachos: So it's it's a whole fulfillment aspect of life. You know what's really important for you. What difference do you want to make? Big or small? You know. Purpose doesn't have to be a scary kind of grant thing.

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Katia Vlachos: right? They can. You know if if I'm a coach, maybe I just want to change the world, one person at a time, I don't have to kind of

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Katia Vlachos: right of yeah manifesto, or something like.

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Jason Wick: Exactly, but.

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Katia Vlachos: What gives your life meaning right? And and vision, where do you wanna go? Having a sense of what's what's on the other end? And then we start like taking baby steps. You know, you need to create momentum. You try out things. You see what works, what doesn't you tweak? Maybe you tweak your goals also, or your vision.

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Katia Vlachos: But you, you get a sense of what works, what doesn't work you. You gain confidence because you know, you start making decisions, you start making moves. So this is like called, like the building momentum kind of phase. And again, I wanna say that a lot of these steps, you know, they overlap, you know. Maybe you, you know, like I said you, you define the vision. But then you take some steps. Then you're like, yeah, maybe I need to go this direction. So you can always go back.

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Katia Vlachos: Step number 5. Very important. And that one comes up.

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Katia Vlachos: Probably the whole time is, is kind of dealing with the the saboteurs

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Katia Vlachos: we call them coaching, which is all the all the limiting beliefs, all the I'm not good enough, or I'm not. Whatever enough, or I'm if I prioritize myself, I'm being selfish, or I, you know especially you know where I come from. As a woman you raise to always put other people's needs ahead of your own. Otherwise you're a bad

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Katia Vlachos: mother, wife, daughter, whatever you want, you know, or you're selfish, or you know, it's kind of you, you. So it's all these things that are very deep. But we

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Katia Vlachos: start, you know, noticing, becoming aware, choosing different beliefs that are much more empowering. But it's it's a it's a process, right? These things are are very deep.

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Katia Vlachos: So, and what happens when you start building momentum. And you know, feeling confident and all that. That's when you know that's when a lot of them show up, because because you're changing and you're growing, and it's a normal part of the process that that you kind of the, you know you feel pulled to stay where you are.

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Jason Wick: Sure you know.

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Katia Vlachos: There's, you know, imposter, syndrome, all that stuff. So we deal with those. And and then the final step is is how to make the transformation sustainable. You know. What kind of systems or habits do you need to develop that? Will you know that will make this change stick? You know the new, you or the old new, you.

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Jason Wick: Whatever you want to call it. There.

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Katia Vlachos: Reinvented you. I call it uncaged and unstoppable because you just like this is the new status quo. This is this is where you are now, and you're just making sure. You know you make it as easy as possible to just keep that going.

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Katia Vlachos: So yeah, I've I've raised through them. But I hope it gives you kind of a sense. You know, there's there's a progression, but there's also overlap and and flexibility also depends on the person right. Then.

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Jason Wick: It does.

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Katia Vlachos: How they approach the process.

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Jason Wick: Yeah. And I respect you know, there's this saying that I always I've grown to love, which is I think it's all models are useless. Some are useful, right kind of the irony of it. I I appreciate it. So frameworks are great because we can

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Jason Wick: wrap our minds around that. And and and we have to have some process, as you're suggesting. But we also should, you know, respect the the individuality of the experience as you've you're already saying right. Each person is gonna go through most of these things, but the way that they navigate them with your help is going to be a little bit different and unique. Right? I wanna make sure that I've just got these 6 things you know, captured them correctly.

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Jason Wick: So first, we're establishing that healthy baseline cause, as you s suggest. Sometimes a lot of people when they're reaching out for help. They're in a very difficult place, right? So we're trying to establish that healthy baseline, and then reconnecting with ourselves sometimes that involves looking at who you thought who you were before. Some of the conditioning. I think you mentioned. Third is aligning, or the alignment which is about values vision, the kind of the person you want to be, the purpose. Sorry the purpose you you want to have right?

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Jason Wick: Fourth is building momentum through baby steps, testing things, understanding how that's going. And and that sounds like an opportunity

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Jason Wick: that is as exciting, and then the fifth step is dealing with saboteurs that are maybe trying to hold you back right but as you.

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Katia Vlachos: But we slay them, we slay them.

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Jason Wick: That's beautiful. I love that. No, that's an inspiring way to say it. And as we work through, though those 4 and 5,

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Jason Wick: we we find find what can sustain right? We're trying to capture that momentum and then find a way that it can sustain with our, as you suggested, the reinvented version of ourselves is, that is that pretty close.

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Katia Vlachos: Perfect.

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Jason Wick: Okay. So I frankly find that in inspiring right? And I hope people listening to this can kind of imagine themselves going through this, you know, we'll call it a transformation. You call it a reinvention, right? I think a lot of us and and like you said for yourself. Sometimes we can only speak for ourselves, but

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Jason Wick: you know different phases of your our lives. We have different challenges. Right? I'm S. Personally, I'm squarely mid career, right? They're mid middle age. I guess it sounds funny to say that. But I guess that's true. And certain parts of life are like autopilot. Maybe right? You're like, okay, have I actually stopped and

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Jason Wick: thought about this recently? Right? So I can absolutely identify and relate with some of the parts that you're calling out, Here

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Jason Wick: And I want to make sure that everybody will have the opportunity to connect with you and reach out if they find this inspiring right. And we'll get to that in just a second.

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Jason Wick: But before we wrap up

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Jason Wick: I ask everybody the same question at the end of our conversation on this podcast and the question I'd like to ask you, Katia is the same, which is what is something that you've learned recently.

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Katia Vlachos: Right. So as I mentioned to you, I'm doing a meditation teacher training, certification.

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Katia Vlachos: And so I've been meditating for about 6 years every day, so it wasn't something completely new. But I wanted to deepen my learning and and maybe teach. I don't know but I'm doing. I started doing this mostly for myself, honestly

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Katia Vlachos: and and so I learned a lot about the philosophy behind meditation, which was, which is really beautiful, but also sometimes uncomfortable. So I learned about impermanence. And

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Katia Vlachos: you know, the Buddha said, we're all gonna

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Katia Vlachos: age. We're all gonna get sick, and we're all gonna die. Oh, and the people we, you know, we love and everything we love. It's also gonna go away because it's not permanent.

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Jason Wick: You.

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Katia Vlachos: I think there's the last one also that's equally depressing is like the the 5 remembrances. And and you know you can hear this and be completely depressed. And you know, and as we get older it, we become more depressed when we hear things like that.

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Katia Vlachos: or you can actually get the real message behind that which is, hey? This? It's not gonna last forever. But why don't we just enjoy the present and actually be present

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Katia Vlachos: now, and be grateful for everything, and it's such a positive and uplifting message. So for me, that was that was a revelation. Because, you know, the first time I read these, remember, since I had first reaction. So so I you know, that's that's been. That's been amazing to learn that, and also to see how meditation is, it's I mean, it is incredibly effective.

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Katia Vlachos: you know, in so many areas and stress, reduction and anxiety and and and depression and all that. But also it's a lot about how to use it, to create the life you want and to to know yourself and to know what you really want to. Yeah, basically to to transform and reinvent. And I found so much like resonance with with my work. So it was kind of an unexpected gift. So long. Answer sorry.

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Jason Wick: No, that's beautiful.

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Katia Vlachos: Wow, yeah, I,

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Katia Vlachos: yeah, yeah.

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Jason Wick: Thank you for sharing that. That's wonderful. And I, I personally always enjoy hearing the answers to these questions, because you just never know what you never know what you're gonna get. And it's always it's just usually very personal, too, right? Which is very cool. So thank you for sharing that with all of us. So, Katya, we have had an interesting conversation today a really, I've enjoyed it a lot. I've learned a lot. We talked a little bit about

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Jason Wick: expats and kind of the the the emotional handling of of this process. For people talked about people, maybe, who are feeling stuck in some part of their lives. And then we've also talked about your reinvention roadmap, right? Which is, I always find it inspiring when people are trying to help others, you know, and it's usually based off of the experiences they've had themselves, and they find the the courage to go out there and help others right

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Jason Wick: so for others who would like to reach out to you or learn more about you. Where would you like to direct them?

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Katia Vlachos: So our best place to find me is my website. And it's easy, Katie of laos.com

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Katia Vlachos: all my social media is there. But I'm mostly active on Linkedin. So please connect with me. If yeah, you wanna

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Katia Vlachos: exchange or find out more about me or ask questions, or whatever I'm I'm happy to connect with people yeah. And like, I said, all my, I'm also on Instagram and all that. But mostly I'm I'm on Linkedin and on my website. So that's the best way to find.

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Jason Wick: Perfect.

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Jason Wick: and I'll have both of those links in the episode notes so anybody can. Just they're one tap or one click away so we'll have them. We'll be able to connect with you easily.

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Jason Wick: Okay.

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Jason Wick: Katya. Been my pleasure today, and thank you so much for being generous with your time from all the way in Switzerland. Have a great rest of your day, and thank you so much for coming by today.

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Katia Vlachos: Thank you, Jason. It's been wonderful.