S4E17: Does Kindness at Work Really Matter?

Jason discusses the Harvard Business Review article, "Why Kindness Isn't a Nice to Have." After a discussion of kindness versus niceness and other insights from the article, we also dig into seven characteristics of effective feedback.

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Transcript

0:44

Did you know that up to 82% of new managers are left completely in the dark, untrained and searching for answers? That lack of preparation doesn't just hurt your new leaders. It holds your entire business back, draining morale and costing you productivity. Stop the clock on bad management. Golden Mean Consulting offers a proven no fluff approach to help your new managers build the right habits from day one. Our co-founders Sonia and Jason have over 20 years of experience in the trenches, so you can trust they know what works. To learn more, visit golden means consultinggroup.com. That's g o ldemeultinggroup.com. Wherever you are on your leadership voyage, it starts here.[Music][Music] Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Leadership Voyage, the podcast dedicated to your pursuit of becoming a great leader. I'm your host Jason Wick. Please feel free to uh reach out to me anytime at startyouvoyaggmail.com. Uh feel free to comment on episodes wherever you're listening. Apple, Spotify, or elsewhere. Send me an email. Uh, any of the above. I'm happy to hear from you at any time. Season 4 is starting to wind down, and I just want to say I'm really proud of this, uh, set of episodes. A lot of interesting people talking about a variety of topics. Uh, and we're getting close to the end. Not quite there yet, but getting close. So, uh, get all the episodes in that you can before 2025 winds down, which it's hard to even say that out loud, isn't it? Before we get into today's topic, which is a kind of unique one. Um, don't forget if you are interested in having groceries delivered to your doorstep, go ahead and click the link in the show notes for Instacart. Um, you can get uh items from your grocery store handpicked by shoppers uh free delivery uh to on your first order over $35. Sometimes you can get the delivery in as fast as an hour. So check it out if you're uh if you haven't tried it yet. Grocery delivery is tremendously convenient. I myself do it on occasion and it is such a nice thing to wake up and go downstairs and all the groceries are sitting right there in front of your door. It's just a fantastic feeling. One less chore to worry about. Okay, so what is today's topic? Today's topic is actually about kindness. And I have to give a big shout out to someone from my network, Elizabeth Cox. Those of you who've listened um kind of uh loyally over the uh the years and particularly this season, you'll have heard me reference this leadership group I've been a in a uh been a part of for about five years. And there's a subset of us who still meet about once a month. And Elizabeth is one of those folks uh as well. So I keep giving a lot of uh tipping my cap to to plenty of folks in this leadership group this year. Brian Reich, he was a guest uh just in the previous episode here and um he was also in that group. So anyway, Elizabeth is really into kindness week and that inspired some things for myself in 2024, giving out some free coaching sessions and stuff like that. But she has been a real champion for this and it's about a month away. Let me make sure I have my details right. I think kindness week worldwide is is almost exactly one month from now. November 8th through 15, 2025. And there is a World Kindness Day, November 13th. But this is a podcast about leadership, right? So, how does this all fit together? Well, Elizabeth tipped me off to this article uh in Harvard Business Review, Why Kindness isn't a nice to have. And this is co-written by Nikki Mlin Thomas H. Lee and Amy Edmonson. Amy Edmonson, many of you probably know the term psychological safety. She is uh one of the instrumental folks in that study. Gosh, I think it was 25 or more years ago at this point. But um about psychological safety, Amy Edmonson, and she's someone we had the the fortune of working with in this leadership group uh that I just mentioned, Elizabeth Cox and I were a me member of. So, why kindness isn't a nice to have dropped on July 29th of this year, 2025. And I'm a guy who tends to get sometimes a little uh focused on details. I'm not going to lie. But in my own defense, I I like to think I only get focused on details when it is a a detail that's important. uh and and what do I mean by that? You know, terminology is important. And why is it important? Not so that we all know the the correct definitions in the dictionary. Terminology is important because to have effective communication, we have to have a shared vocabulary. And I think the word kindness is one that has been bugging me for a few years. I'm not going to lie. And I don't know how popular this this take will be, but you know, there are shirts and and bumper stickers and things that you've probably seen particularly over the last 5 years or so, I'm guessing. You know, something like in a world where you can be anything, choose to be kind. Um, I've heard some folks say, you know, my guiding principle is just be nice to others. Both of these ideas, these sentiments, totally great, right? The who doesn't want more people in the world who treat each other nicely, right? Who doesn't want more people in the world who are kind to each other? But but what does that mean? And again, I don't want to get overly fixated on the terms, but in order to have the conversation academically from this article, we kind of have to. And I wonder if for a few of you out there, the way you use the word kind or nice, I wonder if it'll make you think twice. For me, being nice is fine. Being nice is fine. But for people who know me, they probably know that I've never strived to be nice. Now, it doesn't mean that I walk around the world being a jerk. Well, maybe maybe I do sometimes, you know, let's be honest. Let's be self-aware, I guess. Be open to the blind spot, right? But but I don't I don't try to be. But I do think I have aspired to be kind in the definition set forth by this article, why kindness isn't a nice to have in the organizational culture section of Harvard Business Review. So let's get to it. What What do I mean? What's the distinction here? Because the way that this article talks about kindness and niceness is exactly the way that I've thought about it. And this is why I want to make this episode. I want to hear from others particularly who disagree, who think that niceness is a virtue, who think that the words are interchangeable, who think something totally different I haven't accounted for. Let's hear it. I think this is a great conversation because when you say in a world where you can be anything, choose to be kind. What does that mean? Let's dig into it a little bit. So, first of all, in this article, it makes a distinction between niceness and kindness. And here we go. Right here, I am fixated on the details, but I'm going to go for it. It's my podcast after all. Right? So, here's the story. All right. Niceness is about avoiding discomfort. Kindness is a proactive observable effort to support others growth, well-being, and success. So, I don't know. When someone around you in the workplace does something offensive, you smile, you act nicely to them, and then you walk away. Is that being nice? I I don't know. If someone in the workplace does something offensive and you respectfully bring it to their attention and talk to them, is that kind? I think some of us would say, "Oh man, mind your own business. Why are you even talking to somebody about something like[Music] Do you know the real reason half your employees are looking to leave? Untrained firsttime managers. You need a way to stop the bleeding, the expensive cycle of disengagement and turnover. It's time to flip the script from surviving to thriving. Let's equip your leaders to build engaged, loyal, and profitable teams. Sign your leaders up for our six-week new manager boot camp. A hands-on accelerated program to grow and learn with like-minded peers augmented by personalized coaching sessions. No theory, just simple tools that Golden Mean Consulting co-founder Sonia and Jason have used for over 20 years. Ready to invest in your team's success? Secure your spot now at golden means consulting.com/services. That's g o l d n m a n consultinggroup.com/services that well in this article. Remember kindness is an observable effort to support someone else's growth, well-being, or success. by pulling that person aside who did something offensive, you don't have to act as the police, the the um politically correct police, right? You're saying, "Hey, just want to let you know from my perspective, here's what I saw and I think it might serve you better if you thought about X, Y, and Z." That sounds really difficult, doesn't it? It sounds really difficult to do that. But here's what Amy Edmonson and others bring to this story. again from July 29th in HBR. And remember, you can go create an account at HBR. You get to read three articles for free per month. I know I've also pitched in the past their management tip of the day. I get it every day on my phone as a notification. Go ahead and do it, folks. It's It takes you a minute. It takes you one minute, but it keeps yourself sharp every day thinking about something digestible that you can maybe, oh, should I focus on that? Should I Okay, I'm okay with this, you know, every day. So, here's what they bring to the table from a business angle. Excuse me, sorry, a business angle. The consequences of organizations neglecting kindness of those who don't take it seriously. Here are the negative impacts when your culture hasn't embraced kindness. One, high employee turnover and absenteeism. That's an um side effect of unkind workplace culture. Two, the erosion of trust and communication. Teams stop communicating effectively and that leads to conflict, waste, time lost. Right? Third, customer dissatisfaction. When employees are disengaged because of an unkind environment, it impacts their customers experience. And fourth, reduce productivity. Managers end up spending a lot of time addressing the fallout of incivility and even witnessing unkindness sometimes hurts creativity or decision-making. And I think this part is what gets back to psychological safety. Kind of this core idea that we've talked about over the past couple of decades on what helps a team thrive. An environment where they're free to speak up honestly and openly, take chances, be creative, and not being worried about beaten down. And that's the incivility uh the univil part here that they're talking about of an unsafe environment. The negative consequences of kindness. So let's dig into the benefits of a kind culture. And here's what they list in the article. We talk about stronger relationships and collaboration. When you have a kind culture, employees are more willing to help each other and more willing to share their ideas. Again, remember back to the terminology. This isn't just about niceness. Remember, if somebody has an idea and you think it's horrible, that doesn't mean you just smile and say, "That's a great idea." Right? We don't want to be a creativity killer. I've worked in environments with creativity killers, but that normally comes back to this feeling unsafe. You're afraid to be vulnerable and throw an idea out there. Remember, being nice would be, "Oh, that's amazing, but it you don't like it." But a kind environment, a kind culture, you're still making value and respect front and center, but you can still have an honest conversation about something after we let that free flowing creativity of ideas come out. We don't need to judge so quickly. Second benefit of a kind culture, higher engagement and retention. When people feel valued and respected, it leads to increased loyalty, lower turnover. I think these are all very obvious things, right? We know that. But kind in the culture, that's what they're focused on here. And then third, you get more uh more psychological safety, which we touched on a couple times here, and social capital. I love this part. When you have a kind environment, people feel comfortable speaking up, comfortable asking for help, admitting they made a mistake, and connecting with purpose and inclusion. I love all of these things. Now remember, it's really important to embrace a mindset, I think, when we're having this conversation about mutual exclusivity. That comes up a lot on this show in these little in between episodes that I talk about something. Just because we're talking about one thing doesn't mean that we can't also be another or not be another. Being kind is about caring proactively through actions. about others growth, well-being, and success. And that might start to sound like it's about cander, right? That doesn't mean that you're walking around being a judgmental jerk all the time telling people exactly what you think, right? So, let's not couple these ideas together where kindness is just being able to say whatever you want and somehow niceness is being weak and never addressing anything difficult. Okay, so I kind of love this conversation. It really puts us in uncomfortable territory. So, this is great kindness blah blah blah, right? But how do you how do you do this? How do you instill kindness into an organization? And that's where this article starts to get to some really nice tips about making kindness a hard skill. You know, we've heard about hard skills and soft skills. I myself have embraced these this kind of two buckets of technical skills and people skills. That's what I like to call them. Technical skills are the things required to execute your job, your functional area and people skills are the things that are really the hardest uh navigating all the stuff with communication and else and and otherwise. Right? So in this article they suggest making kindness a hard skill. It has to be treated as something teachable, measurable, much like safety and quality. I kind of love that angle. never have thought about this making kindness a hard skill. So here are a few things that they point out uh about how do you make it a hard skill? First uh in order to treat it as a hard skill, teach practical skills like non-defensive listening, giving and receiving constructive feedback, and handling conflict with care. And we're going to dig into feedback in the second half here. Secondly, as far as treating it like a hard skill, integrate kindness related behaviors into performance reviews and leadership development. You know, there's a book out there um measure I think it's called measure what matters. Um I didn't read the whole book, but the point of this whole is whatever you're measuring is what people are going to be focused on. And so if you create it, treat it as a hard skill, integrate kindness into uh performance reviews and leadership development. It kind of gets baked in. I love that tip. Okay, so there's the hard skill concept here. The next part of this bucket of hard skill, uh making kindness a hard skill is talking about establishing clear expectations. And we know when it comes to management particularly, it almost always starts with unclear expectations. That's the root cause of so many problems. So, establishing clear expectations, define what kindness looks like in action, right? Making it as explicit as expectations for safety or professionalism. Right? When we talk about professionalism, we say this is what professionalism looks like. A B C D. Right? When we have safety in the workplace, this is what safety looks like. You know, XYZ. So, put it in that category. What does kindness look like in action? What are the behaviors? What are examples? Communicate that kindness is expected in all interactions with colleagues, customers, stakeholders. No exceptions. Kindness perhaps in my mind here, we're thinking it maybe becomes a core value of the organization. I'm loving that. Implement formal processes for reporting unkind behaviors, especially high pressure environments. Look, when we talk about things on this show that are about values, principles, all these types of things, right? It can get really easy to start to sound high and mighty. But people are fallible. We are imperfect. As much as we strive, we are going to air. And so especially in those high pressure environments, you would expect triggers happen. You know, un un uh less than ideal behaviors emerge. And so having a process to report and discuss is what they suggest here around clear expectations. And of course, it always comes to this last bit. Leaders must model the behavior, lead by example. This last part here that's really interesting. It's one of the thing things I'm most excited about is it says measure kindness. How the heck do you measure kindness? Well, you measure observable behaviors and team experiences related to kindness rather than vague concepts. Okay, so that kind of goes back to this idea of um clearly defining what kindness looks like. Use surveys to track psychological safety, inclusion, civility, trust, and try to dig into the root cause of turnover or absenteeism in the organization. Love that idea. And then last here, we've got incorporating employee feedback on managerial behaviors that support a kind environment. Some skills like listening, inclusion, delivery of feedback. So, we're seeing a lot of things related here. So you can make kindness a hard skill by treating it first as a hard skill, establishing clear expectations around it and measuring it. Very great tips. So that kind of summarizes the article as I read it uh in HBR and I want to zoom in on feedback because I think this is really one of the most difficult touch points when it comes to being kindness. uh being kind. Someone might want to be kind. They might care about growth for others. They might care about supporting others, right? But the skill of giving feedback so often goes ary. I was fortunate enough to speak at a couple of conferences about feedback and I came up with some principles which I want to share with you and I'm going to go through them pretty fast here. It's going to be a very short second segment, but just listing them out for you here. Okay, so first effective feedback, whether it's feedback or feed forward is number one, not a surprise. That's the ideal. We don't want it to be a surprise. This is coming from a manager point of view. Sorry, maybe I didn't say that. Ideally, manage uh effective feedback is not a surprise. Okay. Second, it's coming from the right place. I think that's where the kindness comes in. We are genuinely delivering this feedback not because we want to push our judgmental button, but because we want to help someone around us. That's number two. Third, focus on the problem, not the person. Right? This means talk about the behavior rather than characterizing that other human as a certain way. Fourth, focus on the facts of a situation when you're delivering that feedback. Fifth, try to make it specific as possible. Right? This isn't you're always acting a certain way, right? That's not good feedback. Going back to the previous thing we discussed here, talking about um this offensive specific behavior in this exact moment that just occurred a few minutes ago. That is specific. Sixth, share the impact of the behavior. When someone behaves a certain way, here are the facts. Here are the specifics. What's the impact? sharing that can actually get someone's attention and make them see what the um the negativity surrounding what they're doing. And seventh, ideally effective feedback is part of a loop. Again, coming from the manager point of view, I'm giving you feedback. You're receiving it. You understand it. You have an action item. You follow through up follow through on it. I see the action. I give you feedback. So those seven feedback principles which I think if you're going to engage in kindness as defined in the article, you're going to have to step into some uncomfortable spaces and too often when we try to help others with feedback delivery, it goes very poorly. So I fully support what this article says. treating kindness as a hard skill in the feedback side of this defining what it looks like and that's what I'm trying to help with here effective feedback ideally specifically from a manager point of view is not a surprise comes from the right place focuses on the problem not the person focuses on facts is specific shares the impact of the behavior and is part of a loop all All right, for those of you who've made it through, I appreciate you taking the time to up your leadership game a little bit. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, particularly areas where you disagree. I think it's a really important conversation to have. Comment on the episode, email me at startyouvoyaggmail.com, whatever it looks like. I'd love to hear and engage on the topic. But until next time, everybody, take care.[Music][Music]